SEAU D’EAU
- Foustan Dormevil; Male; 66 years; 5 children; farmer; 1yr in Cell; Elemante 2
- Ivette Ville; Female; 55 years; 7 children; Market woman; 3yrs in Cell; None
- Norelis Jn Roodson ; Male ; 21 years ; None; Teacher; 2yrs in Cell; 3eme ane
- Poris Feliciane; Female; 66 years; 8 children; Market woman; 3yrs in Cell; Preparatwa 1
- Innocent Saiudan; Male; 22 years; None; Student, farmer; 2yrs in Cell; 7eme ane
- Obri Pierre; Male; 50 years; 3 children; Teacher, farmer, blacksmith ; 0 ; 4eme Segonde
- St Gardien Idalerne ; Female ; 20 years ; None ; Teacher; 3yrs in Cell ; 3eme Segonde
- Placide Idalma ; Female; 36 years ; 6 children ; Market woman ; 4yrs in Cell ; 6eme ane
- Pierre Jespe ; Male ; 30 years; 3 children ; Artist ; 1yr in Cell ; 5eme ane Fondamantal
- Antoine Gustav ; Male; 50 year; None; Farmer; 1yr in Cell; None
- Charles Mairie Jose; Female; 45 years; 8 children; Farmer; 1yr in cell ; 3eme ane Fondamantal
- Jn Baptiste Marc Mesulma ; Male ; 51years ; 8 children ; Farmer; 1yr in Cell ; Sekonde
- AnnaCius Wilner ; Male; 34 years ; 2 children; Moto taxi driver ; 3yrs in Cell; 8eme anne
- Dorsil Lousne; Male; 28 years; None; Farmer; 1yr in Cell; Sekonde
- Douze Manouche; Female; 32 years; None; TNS commercial advisor ; 20 months ; University
- Gardien Foreresse; Male; 48 years; 6 children; Teacher; 4yrs in Cell; Rheto
- Derilus Rosemanie; Female; 23 years; None; Aminator for TNS; 10 months; philo
PRESENTATION
Introduction : Good morning everyone. We are here today to do a presentation….
Objectives of the program
Who are we?
Where was the study done?
What we learned from those producers?
What do you see in these numbers?
RESPONSES BEGIN
(Long Silence)
Male participant: What I see is that these people are more interested in planting more trees because they are being encouraged more to produce more.
84% of producers who are in Cells are planting young trees while 85% of producers who are not Cells are planting young trees. What can you say about these numbers?
(Several participants are talking among themselves.)
What is strange about these numbers is that producers who are not Cells are planting more than producers who are in Cells. Why is that?
(Silence)
#10 Antoine Gustav; Male; 50 year; None; Farmer; 1yr in Cell; None: Producers in Cells now have their own technique for planting, grooming, and picking mangoes in order for them to make more money. To me, what I think is that when producers who are not in Cells saw the revenue of producers who are in Cells they started planting more trees.
Is it because they did not have trees to being with?
#10 Antoine Gustav; Male; 50 year; None; Farmer; 1yr in Cell; None: Exactly!
I found this to be strange because if I am making more money and I am in a Cell that would push me to plant more trees so I can make more money. But what we see here is the opposite; producers who are not in a Cell are planting more young trees than those who are in the Cells.
#10 Antoine Gustav ; Male; 50 year; None; Farmer; 1yr in Cell; None: No! Now they have the tendency, the ambition to plant more.
#12 Jn Baptiste Marc Mesulma ; Male ; 51years ; 8 children ; Farmer; 1yr in Cell ; Sekonde: They want to make more money now they are planting more; but they don’t want to be part of a Cell.
(Participant is coughing)
Why don’t they want to become a member in a Cell?
#10 Antoine Gustav; Male; 50 year; None; Farmer; 1yr in Cell; None: Maybe they don’t understand the process.
#12 Jn Baptiste Marc Mesulma ; Male ; 51years ; 8 children ; Farmer; 1yr in Cell ; Sekonde: Well sometimes when someone doesn’t understand something (A motorcycle is driving by) it can be very difficult for them to participate in it. And something else, I am not being direct but selling to the Cells means selling on credit. Haitians don’t like to sell on credit; and they don’t trust each other. That is why many producers do not want to be part of a Cell.
Because they heard there is credit involved?
Several participant: Yes, Yes
#12 Jn Baptiste Marc Mesulma ; Male ; 51years ; 8 children ; Farmer; 1yr in Cell ; Sekonde: The credit issues, that means even producers who are in Cells are not selling to the Cells. Because the person knows if he sells on credit he will not get his money soon enough.
By credit you mean selling on credit?
#12 Jn Baptiste Marc Mesulma ; Male ; 51years ; 8 children ; Farmer; 1yr in Cell ; Sekonde: That is the problem! They don’t get paid soon enough. That is why you have producers who are in Cells but are not selling to the Cells.
#11 Charles Mairie Jose; Female; 45 years; 8 children; Farmer; 1yr in cell ; 3eme ane Fondamantal: Because they love money and want their money in their hands after selling.
#12 Jn Baptiste Marc Mesulma ; Male ; 51years ; 8 children ; Farmer; 1yr in Cell ; Sekonde: It’s not only because the person loves money but the necessity of the country. There is no job in the country. Necessity and poverty can cause the person not be able to wait for the money.
That is very interesting. Let us continue with the presentation and we will come back to this issue later. In 2010 before the program abegan, 1 dozen mangoes had 20 mangoes. In 2013 a dozen was 16 mangoes; and now in 2015 due to the program a dozen is 14 mangoes. Is this true for you? If we mention something that is not true for you as producers in Seau Do, please correct us.
#12 Jn Baptiste Marc Mesulma ; Male ; 51years ; 8 children ; Farmer; 1yr in Cell ; Sekonde: Up until now we have producers on the local market doing hummm, what do they do. They sell their mangoes to the local market. Actually now when a producer has mangoes and sells them at the local market he makes more money than if had sold it to the Cell, even with 14.
How?
#12 Jn Baptiste Marc Mesulma ; Male ; 51years ; 8 children ; Farmer; 1yr in Cell ; Sekonde: When he sells at the local market in Haiti the producer makes more money. For example, someone has mangoes either Francis or Blanc and sells it at the local market he gets money to do an activity. For these producers it is better for them to sell at the local market because they get their money right away, even if they sell 14 for a dozen.
#11 Charles Mairie Jose; Female; 45 years; 8 children; Farmer; 1yr in cell ; 3eme ane Fondamantal: They sell per dozen.
Does the dozen mean 12?
#11 Charles Mairie Jose; Female; 45 years; 8 children; Farmer; 1yr in cell ; 3eme ane Fondamantal: Yes.
Has it always been 12?
#11 Charles Mairie Jose; Female; 45 years; 8 children; Farmer; 1yr in cell ; 3eme ane Fondamantal: Yes. Now it went up.
Its more now?
#11 Charles Mairie Jose; Female; 45 years; 8 children; Farmer; 1yr in cell ; 3eme ane Fondamantal: Yes
How many is in a dozen now?
#11 Charles Mairie Jose; Female; 45 years; 8 children; Farmer; 1yr in cell ; 3eme ane Fondamantal: Now when they are buying the mango from you they take 14 mangoes for a dozen.
#12 Jn Baptiste Marc Mesulma ; Male ; 51years ; 8 children ; Farmer; 1yr in Cell ; Sekonde: They took 14. They took 14 mangoes.
#8 Placide Idalma ; Female; 36 years ; 6 children ; Market woman ; 4yrs in Cell ; 6eme ane: The reason they are taking 14 is because when they get to the Packing House if 1 mango is not good they need to replace it.
Does that mean in 2010 and 2011 a dozen was 12? Now with the Packing House they are taking 13 or 14 for a dozen, because in the past there was no reject?
#8 Placide Idalma ; Female; 36 years ; 6 children ; Market woman ; 4yrs in Cell ; 6eme ane: I don’t have any problem selling 14 for a dozen, no. If 1 mango is not good they need to replace the bad one with good one when they get to the Packing House. I don’t have any problem with that. Some producers don’t like it, they rather sell with the Voltijes. They sell per tree instead of per dozen.
Why do they sell per tree?
#12 Jn Baptiste Marc Mesulma ; Male ; 51years ; 8 children ; Farmer; 1yr in Cell ; Sekonde: I am going to tell you why. Some producers don’t want to count the mangoes they rather sell per tree. They sell and get paid right away. Maybe the trees were not treated but they don’t care. That’s not their problem. It’s the problem of the buyers. All of these things, hummmm, are pushing the producers to sell their mangoes to other buyers. They are not selling to the Cell because when they sell their mangoes they get paid right away. They don’t have to do any selection in the mangoes. The buyers will take all, good or not good. They don’t have to worry about good mangoes or bad mangoes.
(Participants were asked to give their numbers when talking.)
#13 AnnaCius Wilner ; Male; 34 years ; 2 children; Moto taxi driver ; 3yrs in Cell; 8eme anne: The Cell is something that was created for your benefit. When you sell thru the Cell, producers are making more than money when they sell their mangoes at the local market. It’s a lie. Sometimes you take a basket, fill it up with mangoes and count them to see how many dozen it takes. Before you said someone selling at local market is making more money. But count how many dozen mangoes are in a basket. When someone sells a basket mango for 150 gourdes, but if you count the mangoes there could up to 5 dozens in the basket. Doesn’t he lose money?
(Silence)
Don’t you lose money? Enhhhh? The reason we take 14 for a dozen is when we get to the Packing House if we brought 500 dozen mangoes with us they will be at least 100 mangoes rejected. How would we cover up for the 100 rejected? Ehnnn? They are coming from the extra 2 we took 14 for a dozen. Take for example you took 500 dozens mangoes to the Packing House and there is at least 100,120 or 125 that got rejected. The Packing House will not pay you for these rejects. They took these rejects and cut them open to see if the mangoes have worms. Now evaluate to see where the 120 mangoes are coming from. How many dozen is taken from the 500 dozens? You bought the mangoes from the producers and you need to bring their money back with you. Do you see? You bought 500 dozens and you need to pay for 500 dozens. All of that is coming from the extra you took on the dozen.
Are the buyers buying per tree from the producers?
#13 AnnaCius Wilner ; Male; 34 years ; 2 children; Moto taxi driver ; 3yrs in Cell; 8eme anne: What I said is for the mister who said producers make more money when they sell mangoes at the local market. You need to count how many dozen mangoes in a basket instead of selling a basket of mangoes for $30HT[13]. That’s when you will know if they are making more money at the local market. Buy a basket of mangoes and count to see how many dozens it has. Ok? You need to do that first.
#12 Jn Baptiste Marc Mesulma ; Male ; 51years ; 8 children ; Farmer; 1yr in Cell ; Sekonde: As a producer, I took that example as producer. I am a member in the Cell and I sell my mangoes to the Cell. Everyone does not think the same way. When the producers sell their mangoes with other buyers do they care about good or bad mangoes?
#13 AnnaCius Wilner ; Male; 34 years ; 2 children; Moto taxi driver ; 3yrs in Cell; 8eme anne: Let me tell something very simple. I have been selling mangoes at the Packing House since 2013 when Technoserve first came. If I don’t tell you everything about the selling process is because I don’t want to. Do you understand? We are not here to cheat you. In the past when you get to the Packing House with mangoes you would unload the mangoes with no problem. Now you have pay a fee to unload the truck. These things need to discuss with the people in charge. We don’t have enough money to cover these unknown fees. We are charged $100HT[14] or $150HT[15] to unload a mango truck. These fees are not good for us.
When you get to the Packing House and they ask you to pay to unload the mangoes, do you return with the mangoes? What do you do?
#13 AnnaCius Wilner ; Male; 34 years ; 2 children; Moto taxi driver ; 3yrs in Cell; 8eme anne: No. When you get to the Packing House they need to unload and wash the mangoes. Now the Packing House’s employees are asking you to pay them. You pay them to unload the truck. That fee is not in our budget. We don’t have it in our budget.
#12 Jn Baptiste Marc Mesulma ; Male ; 51years ; 8 children ; Farmer; 1yr in Cell ; Sekonde: That is something from the Packing House.
#13 AnnaCius Wilner ; Male; 34 years ; 2 children; Moto taxi driver ; 3yrs in Cell; 8eme anne: It is something from the Packing House.
Ok. Do they sort the mangoes? What do they do with the ones that are rejected? That is what I want to know.
#13 AnnaCius Wilner ; Male; 34 years ; 2 children; Moto taxi driver ; 3yrs in Cell; 8eme anne: The rejected ones? The rejected ones? Well, it is very good that you mentioned that. As for the reject they buy them at very low price from us.
They brought it from you?
#13 AnnaCius Wilner ; Male; 34 years ; 2 children; Moto taxi driver ; 3yrs in Cell; 8eme anne: The price is too low. The price is too low.
Who brought it from you?
#13 AnnaCius Wilner ; Male; 34 years ; 2 children; Moto taxi driver ; 3yrs in Cell; 8eme anne: The Packing House, but the price we are getting for the rejected ones is too low. The price is too low because we buy the dozen for $10HT[16] from the producers. Now imagine if you have 10, 20, or 40 dozen and the Packing House is paying $3HT[17] or $4HT[18] per dozen. Yes, that is too low.
Who buys it from you, the Packing House or the workers?
#13 AnnaCius Wilner ; Male; 34 years ; 2 children; Moto taxi driver ; 3yrs in Cell; 8eme anne: The owner of the Packing House, then other buyers from the outside come with their truck and buy the rejected ones from them. If they could at least give us back the rejected ones we could sell them at the local market and make more money. The thing is the Packing House has to buy the rejected ones.
Do they give you a receipt?
#13 AnnaCius Wilner ; Male; 34 years ; 2 children; Moto taxi driver ; 3yrs in Cell; 8eme anne: I am sorry?
Does the Packing House give you a receipt for the rejected ones?
#13 AnnaCius Wilner ; Male; 34 years ; 2 children; Moto taxi driver ; 3yrs in Cell; 8eme anne: Yes. They give us a receipt. Yes, they mark them. They write the rejected ones we sell and the amount on the receipt.
Do many producers know how many dozen mangoes are in a basket?
#13 AnnaCius Wilner ; Male; 34 years ; 2 children; Moto taxi driver ; 3yrs in Cell; 8eme anne: The thing is they don’t count them. They don’t know it. In the same way with us here who are in the program when we buy a mango tree from a producer we know how much it should cost by just looking at it. Let me give you an example. There was a lady who was selling a mango tree when I first came in this program and she said, ‘Hey my mango tree is $400HT[19]’. At that time we were new and didn’t know how much we should give her for the mango tree. We said to her we will pick the mangoes and pay her per dozen. When we get to 50 dozen mangoes going to a 100 dozens, she said “Heyyyyy, my mango tree is for $500HT[20]!’’ (Laughing) That means when someone is novice on something you have to help them. If we wanted to cheat that lady we would have gave her the price she had asked at the beginning. We helped her and she made more money. At the end she still got the rejected ones to sell to Voltije who are buying all kind of mangoes.
(Several participants are laughing.)
Did you want to say something?
#8 Placide Idalma ; Female; 36 years ; 6 children ; Market woman ; 4yrs in Cell ; 6eme ane: Yes, on the issue about how many dozen mangoes in a basket. In 2013 the basket used to take 3 dozens. Now mangoes are not selling a basket can take 4 or 5 dozens. As for selling per dozen, that is my thing. I love it! When I sell my mangoes per dozen I get the leftovers to sell in the future. Some people don’t like selling per dozen but I don’t have any problem with it because after the mangoes are sorted I get the leftovers to sell and make more money.
(Silence)
I want to ask a question about selling per dozen. Before the program when we did the study producers were saying Voltije would take 20 to 18 mangoes for a dozen. Now with the program a dozen is 14 mangoes. What do you think about that?
A female participant : No!
Were the Voltije taking more than that?
(Participants are discussing between themselves about the number in the dozen. Several participants said they don’t know that information.)
#8 Placide Idalma ; Female; 36 years ; 6 children ; Market woman ; 4yrs in Cell ; 6eme ane: You know, I never knew they were taking 20 for a dozen. We didn’t know that here. We used to sell mangoes per tree or save it to sell per basket. The buyers didn’t want to buy mangoes per dozen from us.
#11 Charles Mairie Jose; Female; 45 years; 8 children; Farmer; 1yr in cell ; 3eme ane Fondamantal: By my house we used to sell per tree. They buyers didn’t want to buy mangoes per dozen from us.
#13 AnnaCius Wilner ; Male; 34 years ; 2 children; Moto taxi driver ; 3yrs in Cell; 8eme anne: Rarely if there was a few mangoes.
The surveyor explained to the public that the data was collected from several other communities such as Gros Morne, Thomonde, and Mirebalais.
#11 Charles Mairie Jose; Female; 45 years; 8 children; Farmer; 1yr in cell ; 3eme ane Fondamantal: Producers here didn’t sell their mangoes per dozen.
You said that basket used to have, how many?
#8 Placide Idalma ; Female; 36 years ; 6 children ; Market woman ; 4yrs in Cell ; 6eme ane: 3 dozens, now the basket is taking more because the mangoes are selling very well.
Is the basket the same size it was in the past ?
#8 Placide Idalma ; Female; 36 years ; 6 children ; Market woman ; 4yrs in Cell ; 6eme ane: No. The basket is bigger now. (Laughing)
How come it bigger now?
#8 Placide Idalma ; Female; 36 years ; 6 children ; Market woman ; 4yrs in Cell ; 6eme ane: Depending on who’s making the basket.
Are you saying that a dozen was more back then?
#12 Jn Baptiste Marc Mesulma ; Male ; 51years ; 8 children ; Farmer; 1yr in Cell ; Sekonde: Exactly ! That’s what I am thinking too. (Laughing)
#8 Placide Idalma ; Female; 36 years ; 6 children ; Market woman ; 4yrs in Cell ; 6eme ane: This is how it is. I will explain it to you very well. At the beginning when we used to fill the basket with mangoes we used to add some straw at the bottom of the basket. Now when you put the straw at the bottom, the basket will take fewer mangos. We used to add a lot of straw and then cover the basket. But now if the basket is not full all the way to the top you won’t sell it. They said there are a lot of mangoes now. To sell a basket of mangoes it has to fill all the way to the top. In the past you fill it up halfway with straw at the bottom the moment you get to the market they would buy it. That means the more straw you put at the bottom of the basket the fewer mangoes it will take.
Why did you put less then? Will buy it if it has straw at the bottom?
#8 Placide Idalma ; Female; 36 years ; 6 children ; Market woman ; 4yrs in Cell ; 6eme ane: No. You had to add it. Now if it has a lot of straw you won’t sell it. Because they said there are a lot of mangoes now. In the past you could add a lot of straw they would still buy it. They won’t buy now because we have more mangoes.
Do you sell that basket at the local market?
#8 Placide Idalma ; Female; 36 years ; 6 children ; Market woman ; 4yrs in Cell ; 6eme ane: Yes, at the local market. Now we have more mangoes they won’t take the basket half full anymore.
#6 Obri Pierre; Male; 50 years; 3 children; Teacher, farmer, blacksmith ; 0 ; 4eme Segonde: Does that means the Cell is better ?
#8 Placide Idalma ; Female; 36 years ; 6 children ; Market woman ; 4yrs in Cell ; 6eme ane: Yes, the Cell is better for me.
The presentation continued on the price change for a dozen mango since the program.
#12 Jn Baptiste Marc Mesulma ; Male ; 51years ; 8 children ; Farmer; 1yr in Cell ; Sekonde: Well, until now for us in Seau Deau it is more than 28 gourdes when selling it at the farm.
At the farm?
#12 Jn Baptiste Marc Mesulma ; Male ; 51years ; 8 children ; Farmer; 1yr in Cell ; Sekonde: Yes. For us who do not sell our mangoes in the Cell we make more than 28 gourdes per dozen. I don’t about producers who are selling in the Cell.
This data is from 2013.
#12 Jn Baptiste Marc Mesulma ; Male ; 51years ; 8 children ; Farmer; 1yr in Cell ; Sekonde: Ahhhhhh ! But you said right now.
For now it could be higher.
#11 Charles Mairie Jose; Female; 45 years; 8 children; Farmer; 1yr in cell ; 3eme ane Fondamantal: Right now some producers are selling it at $6HT[21] per dozen. If you wash it and take it to the Packing House you can sell it at $9HT[22].
#12 Jn Baptiste Marc Mesulma ; Male ; 51years ; 8 children ; Farmer; 1yr in Cell ; Sekonde: Not at the Packing House. You bring it here.
Are these numbers for 2013 or for now?
Isaac : It could from 2013. Let me add something else on this. These groups of producers are selling their mangoes to the Cell. Some of you here sell to the Cell? Right? Normally you know that the Cell buys a mango that is different from the others. Ok? It’s a mango that is certified. Right? It is what we called equitable or organic mango. Now if you sell your mangoes on the certified market which is at Madame Perry Packing House, you get 42 gourdes per dozen. Do you see what I am saying? Some of you here didn’t get the chance to certify your mangoes. Are you with me? (Yes) These producers stay at the Conventional market. Ok? These producers got a price that was lower than 42 gourdes. Right? (Yes) It depends on the price that was set by the mandates in the Cell. Do you agree with me? (Yes) There were commercial animators who helped the leaders in the Cell to set a price for the Conventional and certified mangoes. Are you with me? (Yes) This year Madam Perry didn’t buy conventional mangoes often. Instead she bought more certified organic mangoes. That is why on an average, remember we talked about average, producers made 42 gourdes per dozen of 13 or 14. For some producers the dozen was 13. I don’t know what arrangement producers here made with their Cell. For a dozen well counted on the certified market was 42 gourdes. Are you with me? (Yes) Ok.
The presentation continued on describing the market for the mango production. It also described the difference between then and now.
(A car is driving by.)
As producers, is this how the market for the production is?
Male Participant : We are in the present now.
Yes. That means we are closer with the exporters now. Is this how the market chain is? Does it make sense to you?
Public: Yes. That is how it is.
Can a Voltije be a contractor?
Several participants: No. No.
Can a Local Contractor be a Voltije?
Several participants: No.
What is the different between a them. What makes someone a contractor?
#10 Antoine Gustav ; Male; 50 year; None; Farmer; 1yr in Cell; None: A contractor is a person who is stabilized and has a connection with the Packing House.
Who has connection with the Packing House?
#10 Antoine Gustav ; Male; 50 year; None; Farmer; 1yr in Cell; None: Yes, exactly.
Does that mean the Voltije doesn’t have a connection with the Packing House?
#10 Antoine Gustav ; Male; 50 year; None; Farmer; 1yr in Cell; None: He has connection with the Big Contractor. He represents that contractor.
But can a Voltije be a Contractor?
Several participants: No. No.
Can a producer be a Contractor?
#13 AnnaCius Wilner ; Male; 34 years ; 2 children; Moto taxi driver ; 3yrs in Cell; 8eme anne: As for me if a producer wants to be a contractor he can. Depending on the amount of product he has. He can play the role of a contractor. Now with the relationship the Cell has with the Packing House a big producer can be a contractor if he is a member in the Cell. That producer can make a connection with the Packing House and sell mangoes to the Packing House. A producer can be a contractor according to me.
Here in Seau Deau are there any producers who are contractors?
Several participants: No. There are none.
#8 Placide Idalma ; Female; 36 years ; 6 children ; Market woman ; 4yrs in Cell ; 6eme ane: I want to add something on what the mister is saying. I can be a contractor who is not a big contractor. Because when I am in the Cell I am on my base. Everyone is bringing their mangoes to me and I buy all the mangoes and give them a receipt. That makes me a contractor.
Does that mean you are a contractor for your Cell?
#8 Placide Idalma ; Female; 36 years ; 6 children ; Market woman ; 4yrs in Cell ; 6eme ane: Yes! I am a contractor.
(Silence. A moto is driving by.)
Isaac : I want to ask a question on what we are now discussing. I know we have a mixture of producers from Seau Deau, St Gardien, and Lacoupe Madigra. Seau Deau is vast. Right? I know this season is the first season for producers from Lacoupe to sell to the Cell. Right? (Yes) The question I want to ask. (Silence) What difference do you make, the question is also from producers from St Gardien, when you sell mangoes yourself or when you sell it to the Cell? Which one is better for you?
#1 Foustan Dormevil; Male; 66 years; 5 children; farmer; 1yr in Cell; Elemante 2: The Cell has more benefits for me. Because this year I didn’t have any trees that were trimmed as for the first time I tried selling my mangoes to the Cell. I didn’t sell many mangos to the Cell because my mangoes were not good quality. Do you understand what I mean? The ones that were good, I sold them to the Cell. Do you know what I mean? The bad ones I sold them to a Voltije. As we speaking right now that Voltije never paid me. You understand? I have not yet gotten paid and it is more likely I will never get that money. But the portion I sold to the Cell in 2 or 3 days I got paid. That is why from now on I will trim my trees. I will never sell my mangoes to anyone else besides to the Cell. Next year I will sell all my mangoes to the Cell. The Cell has more benefits for me.
Isaac: Thank you.
(Silence)
#7 St Gardien Idalerne ; Female ; 20 years ; None ; Teacher; 3yrs in Cell ; 3eme Segonde: I am number 7. When you sell your mangoes to the Cell it’s better because the Cell gives you a receipt for the amount of dozen you sells. They don’t take mangoes that have any marks on them. They take mangoes that are good quality and pure. When you sell to the Cell you make more money than when you sell to Voltije. Voltije sometimes buy mangoes and never pay the producers. With the Cell you get trainings on how to clean the mango trees; and how to pick the mangoes. They trained you on how to make more money on the production and how to protect the production.
#8 Placide Idalma ; Female; 36 years ; 6 children ; Market woman ; 4yrs in Cell ; 6eme ane: I want to add something else. When you sell with the Cell you get paid well. There is something else that makes us very happy. Sometimes later after you sold your mangoes you aree called in a meeting and they give you something more. That is a fortune for us.
What do you call that?
#8 Placide Idalma ; Female; 36 years ; 6 children ; ; 4yrs in Cell ; 6eme ane: That is a bonus. When you get this bonus, it could be 5 gourdes but that’s like a fortune at that moment. That’s very very interesting.
(Silence)
You said sometimes that Voltije don’t pay the producers?
#8 Placide Idalma ; Female; 36 years ; 6 children ; Market woman ; 4yrs in Cell ; 6eme ane: Wi. Gen Voltije ki konn pa peye. Le yo vin achte la yo keyi mango a ya ale. Yes. Some Voltije doesn’t pay us. They took the mangoes and left without paying us.
Are they buying on credit?
#8 Placide Idalma ; Female; 36 years ; 6 children ; Market woman ; 4yrs in Cell ; 6eme ane: Yes. They picked the mangoes and leave without paying. They said they are coming back to pay. You never see them again. Maybe you might see them next year.
(Several participants are discussing about the problem they are having with the Voltje)
#12 Jn Baptiste Marc Mesulma ; Male ; 51years ; 8 children ; Farmer; 1yr in Cell ; Sekonde: When the Voltije is buying the mangoes from you he doesn’t tell you that he doesn’t have money to pay. They agree on a price with you. Just like the guys on the street in Port au Prince, they come in groups. Sometimes they tell you that they are sending their colleagues to the Packing House in Port au Prince to get the money. They also walk around with harvesters to pick the mangoes. They send their colleagues to the Packing House with the mangoes and stay behind. The Voltije would promise to pay you in the afternoon but you would never see them again.
We are not selling on credit. He said that he is sending his colleague to pick up the money and the money is on the way coming. As soon as he send the mangoes to the Packing House you will never see him again.
That’s why as producers we are victims. Now the producers see that the Cell is better for them. The only reason some people are not trusting the Cell more is because of the credit thing. They got cheated so much by the Voltijes that they don’t trust anyone who wants to buy on credit from them. The producers are in great need and that is why they are always be cheated by the Voltijes. The Voltijes would give a higher price for the mangoes and took the mangoes from the producers without paying them.
Would you like to add something else, number 6?
#6 Obri Pierre; Male; 50 years; 3 children; Teacher, farmer, blacksmith ; 0 ; 4eme Segonde: : The Voltijes had cheated the producers a lot. I had not yet solr any mangoes to the Cell but this year I decided to sell my mangoes to the Cell. In several ways, the Cell is better for the producers. The reason, hummmmm, the Voltijes didn’t only cheatus on our money. They made us work for them. They hired our animals to carry the mangoes but din’t pay us. Like number 8 said, when you sell your mangoes to the Cell they give you a first payment then later you will get a surprise. To me that system is very good for us producers.
Would you like to add something more, number 14?
#14 Dorsil Lousne; Male; 28 years; None; Farmer; 1yr in Cell; Sekonde : Lacoupe Madigra, many producers are complaining about the Voltijes. As producers who are in the Cell we have nothing to complain about. Sometimes the Voltijes would come to the area and see that we have a lot of mangoes but the mangoes are for producers who are in the Cell. All of our trees are trimmed but Cell doesn’t have money to buy our mangoes. What do the Voltijes do when they see that? They give the producers a higher price than the Cell’s price. The Cell doesn’t have money to buy those mangoes. Now the Voltijes took the mangoes and sent them to the Packing House. They said to the producers that the money is coming in the afternoon. After several minutes he got in a Taptap and disappeared.
That is why a lot of producers are complaining now. We want to congratulate Technoserve and to encourage the producers to work with Technoserve.
Isaac : From what you just said, can I say before the Cell was in your area, can you remind me that name of where you are from?
#14 Dorsil Lousne; Male; 28 years; None; Farmer; 1yr in Cell; Sekonde : Cano.
Isaac: Yes, Cano or Coupe Madigra. Before the presence of the Cell was there a need for the Voltijes to increase the price?
#14 Dorsil Lousne; Male; 28 years; None; Farmer; 1yr in Cell; Sekonde: Well, yes. It happened before. Before Technoserve came a producer could have mangoes and you give a price but he would sell the mangoes to the highest bidder. It’s the same thing with the Cell. If we in the Cell don’t have money to buy mangoes from the producers they will sell to the Voltijes. Then the Voltijes will leave and don’t pay them.
Isaac : Now with the Cell being there are the Voltijes increasing their prices.
Public: No.
Isaac : Now you know about mangoes that are good quality. The Cell only buys mangoes from the members. Ok? Now the mangoes are more valued. Am I right? (Yes) You all agree with me on that? ( Yes) Well, now are the Voltijes paying more for the mangoes? Are they offering you more money now than before?
#12 Jn Baptiste Marc Mesulma ; Male ; 51years ; 8 children ; Farmer; 1yr in Cell ; Sekonde: Listen. Let’s say now we have several buyers on the market and you merchandise is good quality. Of course the price will go up. I want to buy. You want to buy. He wants to buy. They want to buy. Of course the price will change. Now you have more buyers who wants to buy your product.
#1 Foustan Dormevil; Male; 66 years; 5 children; farmer; 1yr in Cell; Elemante 2: There is something else. Hummmm, the more the Voltijes see were being successful in the production the more they are cheating us. You know when we trim the trees the mangoes are clean and beautiful. You know that the mangoes are for the Cell. Do you understand what I am saying? You know that you will make more money if you sell the mangoes to the Cell.
They did something to me. They were very smart. There is a guy by my house named, what is his name? His name is Animal or something like that. They treated me like an animal. The Voltije brought the mangoes from me and told me that the money is coming.
Sometimes he said that they gave him a check but the check doesn’t have provisions on it. Do you understand? He said several other things too. Now when he said the check doesn’t have provision on it I still think that the money is coming sooner or later. Do you understand?
(Laughing)
I helped him with picking the mangoes. He said that the day won’t be over and I will get my money. I continue picking more mangoes for him. I helped him with picking. Do you understand? My wife washed the mangoes. My children carried the mangoes. He said the money is coming. Before the day ends a truck came and carried the mangoes away.
(Several participants are laughing.)
The Voltije didn’t leave right away. He stayed behind. Suddenly he told me that he is going to Mirebalais. Before he leaves he told me some excuse. When he came back he told me, ‘‘My man the money is really there. The check can’t be cashed yet. We are doing everything to fix it,’’ he said to me. The check will be cashed soon he said. He gave me so many excuses. While he is telling you that he is buying more mangoes from other producers and telling them the same thing.
You see, if that Voltije doesn’t come back I will be in big trouble. There are many producers who did not want to sell their mangoes to him but I encouraged them to sell him. I am responsible for telling them to sell to that Voltije. Now I am responsible to pay $1000HT[23], $900HT[24], and even $600HT[25] to other producers because that Voltije left without paying them.
(Several participants are laughing.)
Do you understand? He won’t even pick up my calls now. (Laughing)
Are you in a Cell?
#1 Foustan Dormevil; Male; 66 years; 5 children; farmer; 1yr in Cell; Elemante 2: Yes I am. There were mangoes that the Cell didn’t buy. They were not good quality mangoes.
Several of you mentioned that that Voltijes are cheating you because the Cell doesn’t have cash to buy mangoes from you. How can the program solve this problem? Who wants to answer this question?
(Several participants are laughing and talking.)
#12 Jn Baptiste Marc Mesulma ; Male ; 51years ; 8 children ; Farmer; 1yr in Cell ; Sekonde: Well, what the program needs to do is to help the Cell gets a loan during the mango season. Help the Cell buy the producers product and pay them at time of buying. As for the Voltijes, they have a big impact on the producers. What impact do they have? You see the poor sellers outside who are selling food? The Voltijes brought their fritay for their workers and leave without paying them. The same thing they did to the producers they did to those poor souls outside.
If there is a way we can get rid of these people, ohhhhh my god, let’s do it! The producers will rejoice a thousand times.
The major problem is that the Voltijes are lying to you?
Several participants: Yes, yes.
Why do you trust them?
#12 Jn Baptiste Marc Mesulma ; Male ; 51years ; 8 children ; Farmer; 1yr in Cell ; Sekonde: I already told you why the producers believe them. It’s a problem. The economy of the country is weak. There are no works. People are in need. The Voltjes give you hope that the money is coming and you give them the mangoes. He didn’t ask for credit. He doesn’t say that he will pay in several days. The producers are in need. They are broke. Life is difficult for them. That is why they are selling to the Voltijes.
Let’s leave the problem aside and find the solution. Let’s not talk about the Voltijes. You said that during the mango season the Cell doesn’t have cash to do the mangoes?
#12 Jn Baptiste Marc Mesulma ; Male ; 51years ; 8 children ; Farmer; 1yr in Cell ; Sekonde: `Exactly ?
Sometimes they raise the price because they know that the Cell doesn’t have money. Now, how can we fix this problem?
#1 Foustan Dormevil; Male; 66 years; 5 children; farmer; 1yr in Cell; Elemante 2: What the program can do is help the Cell get a loan. The time we have more problems is before the season starts. We have to pay school for our children and many other things. Now when the Voltijes come to me I won’t listen to them anymore. Do you understand?
You need money so you listen to them. Now for example if the Cell already help us we won’t talk to them. There is a saying that, ‘The donkey lies where he is tied.’ Do you understand? If we can get a loan now when the Voltijes come they can go everywhere in the community and no one will sell them mangoes. At the end they will have to leave.
A male participant : That’s it !
#14 Dorsil Lousne; Male; 28 years; None; Farmer; 1yr in Cell; Sekonde : Something else, the Voltijes don’t even wait for the mangoes to be ready before they give you a price. Sometimes they give you a price but don’t give you any money. You left the mangoes for them and they never come for them. These mangoes are left on the trees wasted because on behalf of them.
Because the Voltije doesn’t come back for the mangoes?
#14 Dorsil Lousne; Male; 28 years; None; Farmer; 1yr in Cell; Sekonde: The producer doesn’t want to sell to Technoserve and the Voltije already set a price on the mangoes. He stops the producer from selling to anyone else.
Doesn’t the Cell have some kind of savings? Can’t you all put your money together?
#1 Foustan Dormevil; Male; 66 years; 5 children; farmer; 1yr in Cell; Elemante 2: Remember the Cells where not here from the beginning. It’s an experience that is being done. The Cells are new and they don’t have money. They were not expecting these problems. Do they have money to buy mangoes? No, they don’t.
Ok.
#8 Placide Idalma ; Female; 36 years ; 6 children ; Market woman ; 4yrs in Cell ; 6eme ane: The solution we need is that the trees are blooming and bearing fruits from December to March, we need to have some kind of loan to support the production. For us to get this loan, Technoserve has to work with us. We want Technoserve to help us so we can produce more mangoes.
A female participant speaking very low : To give us a credit in order for the mangoes to not go to waste.
Isaac : I am very happy that you mentioned the credit. That is something that is very important. We all know that the credit helps us in the production. Am I right? Well, the Voltijes are also buying your mangoes. They even sometimes buy the mangoes before they are ripe. Am I am right? (Mhum-hmmm) What you call these mangoes, chode[26] ? (Mhumm-hmmmmm)
Male participant: What you said it correct.
Isaac : Chode is the term producers in Gros Mornes used to describe mangoes that not yet ripe. Here you have another term which is kale[27]. You all know that Technoserve is not buying or selling mangoes. Do you see what I mean? (We see) Can you give me another solution for finding the credit that doesn’t involve Technoserve? I agree that Technoserve should accompany the Cells. You know that we are not buying mangoes. If Technoserve was buying mangoes it would not have a problem to provide some credit at beginning.
(Silence)
#1 Foustan Dormevil; Male; 66 years; 5 children; farmer; 1yr in Cell; Elemante 2: I understand. Technoserve has a good relationship with a Packing House. It could help the Cells get a loan from the Packing House.
(Silence)
Isaac: How do you see your relationship with the Packing House?
#1 Foustan Dormevil; Male; 66 years; 5 children; farmer; 1yr in Cell; Elemante 2: No. The relationship I now have with the Packing House is because of Technoserve. Technoserve is the head of the Cells. If the Cells need to make a request I think Technoserve should respond to that request. We need Technoserve. It was Technoserve that created the Cells.
(Silence)
#8 Placide Idalma ; Female; 36 years ; 6 children ; Market woman ; 4yrs in Cell ; 6eme ane: To add something more, Technoserve helps us get a small credit that is very beneficial. Because of that credit we are not selling our animals in times of need. The interest rate is not too high but, if it could be lower, that would be better. We pay our transportation with credit.
As for me the credit is very good. Some producers don’t like it but I like very much. I want Technoserve to stand with us in getting a bigger credit. If Technoserve talks to the Packing House to give us that credit would be very helpful to us.
Isaac : You have been going to the Packing House for several years now and you have a relationship with Packing House. You could talk to the manager. How do you see your relationship with the Packing House manager?
#13 AnnaCius Wilner ; Male; 34 years ; 2 children; Moto taxi driver ; 3yrs in Cell; 8eme anne: On what you just said, we know if the Packing House wants to help us in the production in can do it. I know a Voltije who the Packing House helps. Why can’t it help us? We have a sponsor. (Hummmm) Technoserve could have accompanied us during the mango season to the Packing House and set up a meeting for us with the Packing House manager. Can we just go to the manager and ask for a credit? That is the solution. Technoserve can put us in contact with the manager. Madame Perry doesn’t know us. We cannot go to her and ask for a loan. Technoserve send us to the Packing House. ( Laughing) In the same way it is Technoserve that knows how it will help us get the credit. Maybe during the mango season (Music playing and a phone is ringing) Technoserve will meet with the Packing House’s manger and get the loan for us to buy mangoes. ( The music continues playing). If you take for example $500HT and everyone is in need for that $500HT. I don’t know if Technoserve will help us get the loan. Maybe the interest rate will be $100HT[28], I don’t know. If we pay on time next year it the loan can be higher.
(Music continues playing)
I know a Voltije from Gros Mornes who got a loan of $10,000HT[29] from the Packing House to buy mangoes. He was shot about 7 or 9 times and when the Packing House heard about it, it didn’t let him pay that money back. That is an example I am giving you. I am not telling you to go get shot and die for a loan. ( Laughing)
(Participants are talking among themselves but the discussion is not clear.)
#13 AnnaCius Wilner ; Male; 34 years ; 2 children; Moto taxi driver ; 3yrs in Cell; 8eme anne:: We know we can get access to a loan but it has to be through Technoserve.
Isaac: Let’s leave the loan behind. Do think that you have a good relationship with the Packing House manager? Do you see that?
Several participants: No. No.
#8 Placide Idalma ; Female; 36 years ; 6 children ; Market woman ; 4yrs in Cell ; 6eme ane: No. We don’t believe that we can talk to the Packing House manager. Technoserve was the one who puts us in contact with the Packing House. They do not know us.
OK.
#8 Placide Idalma ; Female; 36 years ; 6 children ; Market woman ; 4yrs in Cell ; 6eme ane: No. No. They don’t know us. We go through Technoserve. We have to go and talk to the Packing House then Technoserve will tell us what to do.
#13 AnnaCius Wilner ; Male; 34 years ; 2 children; Moto taxi driver ; 3yrs in Cell; 8eme anne: An example that is very clear. When I got to the Packing House with the mango truck, wasn’t it you that kept bothering to help me sell the mangoes. I asked you to help get the mangoes in because I couldn’t return the mangoes to the producers. I need to return with their money. What did you do? You told me to wait for you. Everywhere we went we couldn’t sell the mangoes. You got in your car and went out then you called saying you could help me. I told you that I will sleep at the Packing House until something is done because I can’t go back with the mangoes. At the last minute you wrote a text message and said to go to Germain’s Packing House with the mangoes. You are the team’s leader. That’s is why you did what you did.
(Several participants are laughing.)
Isaac : Do you think that you will be able to do what I did in the future? If you have a good relationship with the Packing House, do you think in the future you will be comfortable to talk to Packing Houses managers?
#8 Placide Idalma ; Female; 36 years ; 6 children ; Market woman ; 4yrs in Cell ; 6eme ane: Yes we can. But we need someone to first introduce us to the mister. After the introduction and all, I can. If I am not introduced to him I find it strange for me ask for credit. I will not be able to speak with him.
#13 AnnaCius Wilner ; Male; 34 years ; 2 children; Moto taxi driver ; 3yrs in Cell; 8eme anne: On this problem, I went to a meeting somewhere and there were IDs. We need IDs. If we have some kind of ID we could identify that we are from Technoserve. ( A Moto is driving by.) Can I just go to the Packing House with a couple of mangoes and say I am a mango expediter? ( Laughing) I cannot. I don’t have an ID to identify myself.
(Someone outside the meeting is calling someone named Gayo)
Isaac: Does the presence of the Cell decrease the number of Voltijes in the community?
(Silence)
#7 St Gardien Idalerne ; Female ; 20 years ; None ; Teacher; 3yrs in Cell ; 3eme Segonde: I want to say yes. Many producers who were selling to the Voltijes now see the benefits they can get from the Cell and now are selling to the Cell instead.
#13 AnnaCius Wilner ; Male; 34 years ; 2 children; Moto taxi driver ; 3yrs in Cell; 8eme anne: No but the Voltijes are starting to feel weak now. That is why we need money to put them out of the community. (Laughing) Because since….you see this guy he is from Coupe Madigra. We (Laughing) were at the Packing House and saw several Voltijes. Each time they see him they clapped him on the back. “You are not selling us mangoes anymore.’’ They said. Now you can see that they notice something. Eventually they will leave. (Laughing)
Isaac : A few minutes ago I asked what difference you made when you sell mangoes yourself or when you sell it to the Cell and which one brings more money. I heard answers from some participants who sold to the Cell but didn’t get a chance to hear from those who didn’t. I know this gentleman was cheated by a Voltije because he mentioned that. Is there anyone else who got cheated on this season?
(Silence)
#10 Antoine Gustav ; Male; 50 year; None; Farmer; 1yr in Cell; None: I sold to the outside buyers. I didn’t sell to the Cell. It was not good for me.
#12 Jn Baptiste Marc Mesulma ; Male ; 51years ; 8 children ; Farmer; 1yr in Cell ; Sekonde: I told you about my experience already. I told you what I went through with the Voltijes. Do you understand what I mean? They took the mangoes and never return to pay us. We said that before, if we can get a loan before the season start we can stop the Voltijes. We can stop them from coming in. Do you understand what telling you?
Isaac : I understand. What we want to know is what is pushing you to sell on your own? Why are you selling outside the Cell?
#12 Jn Baptiste Marc Mesulma ; Male ; 51years ; 8 children ; Farmer; 1yr in Cell ; Sekonde: Well, it’s money, money problem. We were hungry. If the Cell doesn’t have money to loan us when the Voltijes come and sweet talk us, of course we will sell to them. Didn’t you hear I said that he told me that the money is coming? Do you understand? The check doesn’t have provision on it, it can’t be cashed. He kept give me fake promises. Do you understand what I mean? If at the time you had something in your hands you wouldn’t listen to them.
We know that we have been here for a long time. We want to ask a few question before we leave. Just a reminder, please lift your numbers to identify who is talking.
Let’s have talk about the mango production in the past. We are talking about our great grandparents. What is the difference between now and then?
#7 St Gardien Idalerne ; Female ; 20 years ; None ; Teacher; 3yrs in Cell ; 3eme Segonde: Just like avocadoes, we used to shake the mango trees, fill our basket and leave. There was no such thing as selling mangoes in past. We were selling a basket of mangoes for 20 or 10 cents. It is now that we are selling mangoes, we have Voltijes buying mangoes and also Technoserve has opened a door for us to sell more mangoes.
#8 Placide Idalma ; Female; 36 years ; 6 children ; Market woman ; 4yrs in Cell ; 6eme ane: In the past when our parents were selling mangoes, when they got to the local markets they would find a long line of mangoes on the ground. No one was buying mangoes. Sometimes they would sell some but other times they would sell none. When you don’t sell them at the local markets you have to throw them away. Probably at the time there was a place where you could have sold them. (Someone is coughing.) Now with Technoserve, mhummmmm, our mangoes are not being wasted. What we want to ask Technoserve is to help us find more market for the mangoes. Because the product is still being, the last time we were sending our 3rd mango truck to the Packing House they said they couldn’t take mangoes anymore. There were more than 1000 dozen mangoes.
What did you do with those mangoes ?
#8 Placide Idalma ; Female; 36 years ; 6 children ; Market woman ; 4yrs in Cell ; 6eme ane: We sold them at the local market. Yes, at the local market. We keep them until they are ripe and sold them at the local market.
Are you saying that there were mangoes in the past then now?
(Several participants are talking to each other. Some of them said yes.)
#12 Jn Baptiste Marc Mesulma ; Male ; 51years ; 8 children ; Farmer; 1yr in Cell ; Sekonde: The mangoes were less back then. The quantity was less and the mangoes were not exported. There were no international buyers who wanted to buy mangoes from us back then. The product was only being sold locally. It was being wasted. It was not valued. Now the product is more. It’s being exported to international buyers. Like that woman said, we need at least 15 more Packing Houses to be associated with Technoserve. When there is a big traffic at 1 Packing House so we can go to another Packing House to sell our mangoes. It is not good for us when the product is prepared and ready and we cannot sell it.
Do you cut down mango trees sometimes ?
#12 Jn Baptiste Marc Mesulma ; Male ; 51years ; 8 children ; Farmer; 1yr in Cell ; Sekonde: No!
#8 Placide Idalma ; Female; 36 years ; 6 children ; Market woman ; 4yrs in Cell ; 6eme ane: No, a long time ago.
#12 Jn Baptiste Marc Mesulma ; Male ; 51years ; 8 children ; Farmer; 1yr in Cell ; Sekonde:: Like I said, the product was not valued in the past. The old generation used to cut down the trees.
What did you with the trees when you cut them down/
Several participants: Poverty. Misery. It was not valued.
Did you made wood with the trees?
Several participants: Yes, they used to make boards with them!
#12 Jn Baptiste Marc Mesulma ; Male ; 51years ; 8 children ; Farmer; 1yr in Cell ; Sekonde: Now we don’t do that anymore, especially in this area. A producer will trim his trees but he will never cut them. Cutting mango trees is not something you will see happening anymore. The only thing you will see is a producer transforming mango trees such a Miska or Fil into Francis, only that. Now we know how valuable our mangoes are.
Number 12, you said something about transforming other mangoes to Francis, can you explain the process?
#12 Jn Baptiste Marc Mesulma ; Male ; 51years ; 8 children ; Farmer; 1yr in Cell ; Sekonde:: Yes. For example to regenerate a mango tree the producer would cut the branches that need to be cut. When the branches regrow he will graft them. He takes Francis and sends it on the one that is not Francis.
Ok. Does that mean to have Francis you have to send it to another kind?
(Someone is coughing.)
#8 Placide Idalma ; Female; 36 years ; 6 children ; Market woman ; 4yrs in Cell ; 6eme ane: Yes. To do the grafting you take the Francis branch and cut it. You go to the other tree and cut the branch too. It needs time to be done. If you know how to do you will know what to do. If you are cutting all the branches, you cut them all and wait for them to regrow. Now you go to the Francis and take the graft and cut it. You need to give shape and place it on the other one. What you did is call grafting. At a certain time that tree will produce Francis because the graft was from the Francis tree. If the tree you did the grafting was maybe Fil you might never see that mango again on that tree.
Ok.
#8 Placide Idalma ; Female; 36 years ; 6 children ; Market woman ; 4yrs in Cell ; 6eme ane: That means you transform it into Francis.
Did you do grafting in the past?
Several participants: No.No. No.
#8 Placide Idalma ; Female; 36 years ; 6 children ; Market woman ; 4yrs in Cell ; 6eme ane:: No. We didn’t have that system.
Does that mean you didn’t plant mangoes in the past ?
Several participants: They planted. Yes. We planted.
#8 Placide Idalma ; Female; 36 years ; 6 children ; Market woman ; 4yrs in Cell ; 6eme ane:: We planted but we didn’t do grafting.
How did you plant before?
#8 Placide Idalma ; Female; 36 years ; 6 children ; Market woman ; 4yrs in Cell ; 6eme ane: We used to cut trees more to plant them. If that mango was Francis or Miska you would just plant the seed and let it grow.
Ok.
#8 Placide Idalma ; Female; 36 years ; 6 children ; Market woman ; 4yrs in Cell ; 6eme ane: It is with the Technoserve program that we are now doing grafting.
Is Technoserve the only program doing grafting?
Several participants: No. No but. Listen …
#8 Placide Idalma ; Female; 36 years ; 6 children ; Market woman ; 4yrs in Cell ; 6eme ane: Where I am from it is only Technoserve doing it. Do you understand?
No one else is doing it, not even someone who is doing it as a business?
Several participants: There are others. Other people are doing it.
#11 Charles Mairie Jose; Female; 45 years; 8 children; Farmer; 1yr in cell ; 3eme ane Fondamantal: There other organizations that are doing grafting too. Because in the past we didn’t have it now we have plenty. You see me, my husband used to graft in the past. We didn’t have plenty of mango Francis like we do now. At the end of the day he would bring money that he made in grafting. If he grafted 50 trees he would bring money home to buy food for the children. Now there are people who are sent…( A lot of noise in the public can’t hear what participant said next.)
#10 Antoine Gustav ; Male; 50 year; None; Farmer; 1yr in Cell; None: Now both adult and children has mango trees.( Laughing)
#11 Charles Mairie Jose; Female; 45 years; 8 children; Farmer; 1yr in cell ; 3eme ane Fondamantal: I have a brother in law who is an agent in CTEH, he gets paid every month.
(Several participants are talking at the same time)
#11 and #12 talking to each other : When the trees are 5 years old they start producing. Yes. 2 ½ to 3 years the mangoes are producing.
#12 Jn Baptiste Marc Mesulma ; Male ; 51years ; 8 children ; Farmer; 1yr in Cell ; Sekonde: For example on the same that tree can start bearing fruits on the same year special if the graft was taking from a tree that was already producing. It will be up to you let it let bear fruits. The branches might be too weak that you have to eliminate the harvest. Sometimes the tree produces fruit too fast and the branches don’t have the capacity to hold the mangoes and you can cut down that harvest.
Ok. Are you saying if you graft a tree and it can produce mangoes on the same year?
(Some is coughing.)
Several participants: No. No. No. No.
#12 Jn Baptiste Marc Mesulma ; Male ; 51years ; 8 children ; Farmer; 1yr in Cell ; Sekonde: I said the same year……(Number 8 started talking.)
#8 Placide Idalma ; Female; 36 years ; 6 children ; Market woman ; 4yrs in Cell ; 6eme ane: You might not like it because the branches are too weak. Sometimes when the branches are too weak…(Several participants are speaking very loud. Having a hard time hearing what participant is saying.) Several years ago….( Several participants are still being very loud.)
(Participants are laughing.)
(Silence)
(A moto is driving by.)
Did you want to add something else number 6?
#6 Obri Pierre; Male; 50 years; 3 children; Teacher, farmer, blacksmith ; 0 ; 4eme Segonde: As for the grafting it is rarely…..( Several participants are being very loud cannot hear what is said next.)
Which one you have more of now?
#6 Obri Pierre; Male; 50 years; 3 children; Teacher, farmer, blacksmith ; 0 ; 4eme Segonde: We have more organization. Do you understand? They are doing grafting everywhere now. We also have Technoserve. Now we have more.
What I don’t understand is that you said they know how to do graft. Doesn’t your husband do grafting?
#8 Placide Idalma ; Female; 36 years ; 6 children ; Market woman ; 4yrs in Cell ; 6eme ane: Yes.
But why do you need someone to do it then? If you know how to do it, you don’t need Technoserve to help you. Do you see what I mean? There is an opportunity to have a business here. Why are you not doing it?
(Several participants are arguing about the grafting system among themselves.)
#6 Obri Pierre; Male; 50 years; 3 children; Teacher, farmer, blacksmith ; 0 ; 4eme Segonde: We do it. In the past it was not in big quantity. In the past we did it. Now it’s bigger.
Can you buy it at the Packing House?
#6 Obri Pierre; Male; 50 years; 3 children; Teacher, farmer, blacksmith ; 0 ; 4eme Segonde: : Yes, exactly.
During that time was mango Francis popular?
#6 Obri Pierre; Male; 50 years; 3 children; Teacher, farmer, blacksmith ; 0 ; 4eme Segonde: No. It was mango Blanc. During that time it was mango Fil, Miska and Kodok. Do you understand? There were only a few Francis tree. Francis is more popular now because the graft system.
#12 Jn Baptiste Marc Mesulma ; Male ; 51years ; 8 children ; Farmer; 1yr in Cell ; Sekonde: Hummmm, for example, the first institution that came with the graft system was PADF.
What year was that?
#12 Jn Baptiste Marc Mesulma ; Male ; 51years ; 8 children ; Farmer; 1yr in Cell ; Sekonde: Ahhhhh, I think that was a long time ago. St. Gardien, do you remember when?
#16 Gardien Foreresse; Male; 48 years; 6 children; Teacher; 4yrs in Cell; Rheto: In 1987[30]? Yes, 1984[31].
#12 Jn Baptiste Marc Mesulma ; Male ; 51years ; 8 children ; Farmer; 1yr in Cell ; Sekonde: It was PADF who first did it. They gave training and Francis was so rare that they had to go to other places to buy them and bring them here. Sometimes they would give you mangoes that were not Francis. They would bring trees that were not Francis. Remember, when people are doing business they only care about the money. It was PADF who first came with the program.
Which mango do you eat the most?
#12 Jn Baptiste Marc Mesulma ; Male ; 51years ; 8 children ; Farmer; 1yr in Cell ; Sekonde: Me ?
Yes.
#12 Jn Baptiste Marc Mesulma ; Male ; 51years ; 8 children ; Farmer; 1yr in Cell ; Sekonde: Ahhhh, the mango I like the most might be the one that is not very healthy for the body. It is Blanc. It’s a mango that is vey delicious but it has less vitamin.
And you, which one you like the most?
#10 Antoine Gustav ; Male; 50 year; None; Farmer; 1yr in Cell; None: Mango Blanc, it has more vitamin and I like it the most.
What about you, number 11?
#11 Charles Mairie Jose; Female; 45 years; 8 children; Farmer; 1yr in cell ; 3eme ane Fondamantal: I like Blanc more but the mister who is my husband told me that Francis has more vitamin than Blanc.
Number 6, which one you like the most ?
#6 Obri Pierre; Male; 50 years; 3 children; Teacher, farmer, blacksmith ; 0 ; 4eme Segonde: : I like mango Baptiste and Francis
What about you number 9 ?
#9 Pierre Jespe ; Male ; 30 years; 3 children ; Artist ; 1yr in Cell ; 5eme ane Fondamantal: We eat alot of mango Francis but we consume more mango Blanc because their season is longer than Francis.
What about you number 1 ?
#1 Foustan Dormevil; Male; 66 years; 5 children; farmer; 1yr in Cell; Elemante 2: Well, I eat Francis but Blanc is smoother. If I have to choose between Francis and Blanc, I won’t lie to you, I would pick Blanc.
(Several participants are laughing.)
Number 7 which one you like the most?
#7 St Gardien Idalerne ; Female ; 20 years ; None ; Teacher; 3yrs in Cell ; 3eme Segonde: Mango Francis.
Number 4 ?
#4 Poris Feliciane; Female; 66 years; 8 children; Market woman; 3yrs in Cell; Preparatwa : I like both Francis and Blanc.
(Laughing)
Number 5?
#5 Innocent Saiudan; Male; 22 years; None; Student, farmer; 2yrs in Cell; 7eme ane: Francis and Blan.
Number 2?
#2 Ivette Ville; Female; 55 years; 7 children; Market woman; 3yrs in Cell; None: I like mango Jean Marie more.
? Is there a lot of Jean Marie here?
Public : No. Not alot.
#8 Placide Idalma ; Female; 36 years ; 6 children ; Market woman ; 4yrs in Cell ; 6eme ane: We would like to have some but where I am from we never get any.
Number 3, which one you like the most ?
#3 Norelis Jn Roodson ; Male ; 21 years ; None; Teacher; 2yrs in Cell; 3eme ane: Francis and Blanc.
Number 13?
#13 AnnaCius Wilner ; Male; 34 years ; 2 children; Moto taxi driver ; 3yrs in Cell; 8eme anne: Mango Konn and Mango Blanc.
(Several participants are laughing.)
Let’s talk about something else. How is the production different now from the past generation?
Several participants: Yes. Of course.
#7 St Gardien Idalerne ; Female ; 20 years ; None ; Teacher; 3yrs in Cell ; 3eme Segonde: There is a change. In the past producers didn’t clean the trees. Now we clean our trees.
Ok. Is there any other change?
#3 Norelis Jn Roodson ; Male ; 21 years ; None; Teacher; 2yrs in Cell; 3eme ane: What I want to say is that in the past the producers where picking mangoes by climbing the trees and shaking them. They didn’t do any selection when picking. When they shook the trees, both immature and ripe mangoes fell down. That was an economic problem. Producers where not making money in the production. Now with the program, producers know how to select the good mangoes. Because of that the mangoes that are not yet mature have time to be mature. Producers are making more money now.
Would someone else like to add something?
#12 Jn Baptiste Marc Mesulma ; Male ; 51years ; 8 children ; Farmer; 1yr in Cell ; Sekonde: Now the production has more value. Producers are taking better care for the production. They are not tying animals or throwing trash in their farms. Producers are taking more precaution on the production. Not only do they plant more and produce more they are making more money now.
Let’s take number 5.
(Number 5 is talking very low.) Can you please speak louder?
(A cell phone started ringing)
#5 Innocent Saiudan; Male; 22 years; None; Student, farmer; 2yrs in Cell; 7eme ane: Something that is very good in the program is when you least expect you get a surprise. Producers didn’t use to take precaution on the production. They used to tie animals on the farms. Now they don’t do that anymore. They used to tie pigs on the farms now they are protecting the farms because the mangoes are bringing in more money.
Ok. Let ask another question. Are the men picking the mangoes?
#5 Innocent Saiudan; Male; 22 years; None; Student, farmer; 2yrs in Cell; 7eme ane: Yes.
(Several participants are arguing about that among themselves.)
Do the women have a special role in the production? Are there things only men do?
#7 St Gardien Idalerne ; Female ; 20 years ; None ; Teacher; 3yrs in Cell ; 3eme Segonde: Now there are no such things as only men climbing trees. Women climb trees too. If there is no man around to pick the mangoes, I pick mangoes and sort them just the same as a man. Everyone is involved, in the production there are no men only, or women only.
Has it been always like that?
(A moto is driving by.)
#7 St Gardien Idalerne ; Female ; 20 years ; None ; Teacher; 3yrs in Cell ; 3eme Segonde: Before it were only men climbing trees. Now both men and women are the same.
Is there any change in the production?
#8 Placide Idalma ; Female; 36 years ; 6 children ; Market woman ; 4yrs in Cell ; 6eme ane: Yes, there are changes. Since I was a young girl I was climbing trees. I was climbing trees to pick Kayimit[32]. Each time I see a fruit I would climb the Kayimit tree. Now with Technoserve the animators need to hurry up because I know how to climb trees like any man. I trimmed my trees. I don’t need anyone to pick mangoes for me.
(Participants are clapping.)
Let me ask another question. Who sells mangoes, women or men?
Several participants: Ahhhh, everyone. Everyone sells mangoes. Everyone sells.
#11 Charles Mairie Jose; Female; 45 years; 8 children; Farmer; 1yr in cell ; 3eme ane Fondamantal: Some men don’t, women sell mangoes. These men like money too much.
(The public is laughing.)
#11 Charles Mairie Jose; Female; 45 years; 8 children; Farmer; 1yr in cell ; 3eme ane Fondamantal: I am suppose to be selling the mangoes.
Ok. Let me add something else. Have the men been always involved in the selling or is this something new?
#11 Charles Mairie Jose; Female; 45 years; 8 children; Farmer; 1yr in cell ; 3eme ane Fondamantal: They like money since the past. Now the money from selling mangoes is too good and they want to do the selling.
Now they are more intelligent?
(Several participants started laughing.)
#10 Antoine Gustav ; Male; 50 year; None; Farmer; 1yr in Cell; None: Well, I like it like that. Anyway men are supposed to sell mangoes because they are the ones who plant mangoes.
Several participants Whattttttttt? Where?
#10 Antoine Gustav ; Male; 50 year; None; Farmer; 1yr in Cell; None:: (Laughing) Women don’t plant mangoes. .
Several participants : Whattttttttt?
Ladies do you agree with that ?
(Everyone started laughing.)
#11 Charles Mairie Jose; Female; 45 years; 8 children; Farmer; 1yr in cell ; 3eme ane Fondamantal:: Well, let me give you a story. Women should be selling mangoes. Women are better at managing money.
Several participants: Yes! Give it to them!
#11 Charles Mairie Jose; Female; 45 years; 8 children; Farmer; 1yr in cell ; 3eme ane Fondamantal: I went to see Barack and return the money. Barack said to me, ‘‘What are you talking about Madam? I did GPS and everything that needed to be done on the mangoes already.’’ ‘‘I am not selling my mangoes for this price.’’ I said to him. I stood my ground with Barack and when I was going to see him I did not wear a simple dress. No, I wore a pair of PANTS!
I can’t say that I know everything but I was raised from a family that is smart. One day I got up and went out to do the washing. When I came back from washing my husband told me that he sold mangoes. I asked him who did he sell them too and he said to a Voltije. I told him, ‘‘Didn’t I tell you I was not selling my mangoes to Voltije but to the Cell?’’ He said, ‘‘ I am leaving the mango trees on that place for you. You can sell them to the Cell. The reason I sold them was because I was broke.’’ I asked him, ‘‘ How much did you sell them for?’’ ‘‘I sold them for $1200HT[33].’’ He said. ‘‘Ohhhhh ! For how much money you said?’’ I asked. ‘‘Are you saying that I made a bad deal?’’ He asked.
Last year the trees did not bear a lot of mangoes and we only sold for $800HT[34]. For him because he sold the mangoes for $1200HT. At that time that was a big deal for him. I took the money from him to return it to the buyer. My husband had already sent 1000 gourdes to our first born who is going to university in Mirebalais. I told him that I won’t be misguided by that and I will return the money to buyer. Some people told me that the buyer already did, what do you call it? ( Male participant : GPS) did GPS on the mangoes and he won’t give me more money for the mangoes. I said to them that’s his problem not mine. I got up and went to Doudou’s house to talk to, what is the guy’s name? (Female participant: Barack) I went to see Barack and return the money to him. Barack said to me, ‘‘what are talking about Madam? I did GPS and everything that needed to be done on the mangoes already.’’ ‘‘I am not selling my mangoes for this price.’’ I said to him. I stood my ground with Barack and when I was going to see him I did wear a simple dress. No, I wore a pair of PANTS!
(Participants are laughing.)
When I told Barck, ‘‘Here is your money. I am not selling my mangoes for less than $1800HT[35]’’. On my way to see Barack I stopped somewhere and borrowed the 1000 gourdes[36] my husband spent. ‘That price is not good for me’’ said Barack. Actually my mangoes are supposed to be sold for $2000HT[37], I said to him. Isn’t your name Charles Marie Jose? You already signed your name here. Your husband signed your name on the receipt, said Barack. I just ignored him. When Barack saw how angry I was and I was serious about returning the money, when I placed the money on his desk, he said to me that he will add $300HT[38] more. I told him no $300HT is not enough that he needs to add $500HT instead. I told him that I was going to sell my mangoes for $1800HT and I will deduct only $100HT for him. He didn’t agree.
At the end he added $400HT[39] more. When I got home I told the mister that I sold the mangoes for $1600HT[40] he was surprised. ‘‘Is that true? I didn’t know that. If I knew I would not have sold the mangoes’’, he said. ‘‘That is why I told you don’t sell the mangoes because you don’t how to make good deals’’, I said to him.
My husband is more knowledgeable than me. He knows everything. That means some people can be very knowledgeable but women are harder than men. Women know how to make better deals than men.
(Participants are laughing.)
That is why the mister is in another Cell and I am in this Cell. Now he sells a portion of the mangoes in his Cell and I sell a portion on my Cell. There are a lot of things he likes in my Cell. He always said, ‘‘Here are mangoes I want you to sell them.’’ Do you know what he likes the most? He likes the trainings the most. He has a lot of land with mango trees on them. There is a half of an acre land that we only have 1 mango tree on it, only 1 mango tree. He likes the mango production very much, but this year that mango tree didn’t bear fruit. The tree needs grooming but he doesn’t want me to trim it. He said when I trim the mango trees I mistreat them. As for me, when I trim my trees that is when the trees produce more mangoes.
Now this year when I called buyers to buy the mangoes on that tree, no one wants to buy the mangoes because the mangoes are tiny with marks on them. When he saw that he said to me, ‘‘Marie Jose, you can look for a solution for the problem. You are in charge now. I am never home. Find someone to trim the trees.’’
As for me, I am only selling my mangoes to the Cell. I want to sell a lot of mangoes to the Cell. I had mangoes that I sold to Voltije but next year I am only selling to the Cell. I have more guarantees when I sell my mangoes to the Cell.
I sold some mangoes with the mister knowing but I didn’t sell to the Cell. That’s a woman thing. The mister sold the mangoes and I took the rejected ones and sold them to a Voltije. That Voltije told me, just like that mister told you, ‘‘You can pick the mangoes and sell them to me. I will send the money for you.’’ Oh my god, I was very hungry I would have taken that money and buy food with it. That Voltije took the mangoes and never give 1 gourde. He left with the money. Up until now I never heard from him.
I was so embarrassed I didn’t say anything to the mister. The mister would be mad. He would want to know why I sell mangoes to these people. Until now I have not said anything to him. That money is lost. That Voltije will never pay me.
Why are you still selling to the Voltije despite all the abuse you got from them. Are the Voltije local people?
Several participants: No. No. They are not local.
Where are they from?
#11 Charles Mairie Jose; Female; 45 years; 8 children; Farmer; 1yr in cell ; 3eme ane Fondamantal: The one I sold to was from Cabarret. I know someone who knows where he lives. There are producers he owe $1000HT[41]. He only owes me $250HT[42]. Thank god he didn’t owe more than that.
How do they get in contact with you?
#12 Jn Baptiste Marc Mesulma ; Male ; 51years ; 8 children ; Farmer; 1yr in Cell ; Sekonde: They just appeared. They arrive in the field.
#11 Charles Mairie Jose; Female; 45 years; 8 children; Farmer; 1yr in cell ; 3eme ane Fondamantal: They have local people who walk around with them. One of them knew I had 2 mules and 1 died and the mangoes being wasted. He found a buyer for me. When that buyer came we set a price and I was very happy, like I was giving birth to a baby. I was very happy to help with picking the mangoes because I thought the buyer was an honest person. The person who came with the buyer said to me, ‘ I can bring the money to you if by any chance you don’t see the buyer anymore because I know him personally.’ You think that the buyer brought back the money? That person who told me to sell my mangoes to that Voltije each time I see him, I said to him ‘My child have you heard from the Voltije yet?’ This is what he said to me, ‘‘I don’t know anything about that. You are the one that sold your mangoes to that Voltije. I don’t know regarding that issue.’’
(Several participants are laughing and joking.)
Do the locals who walk around with the Voltije have a name?
#8 Placide Idalma ; Female; 36 years ; 6 children ; Market woman ; 4yrs in Cell ; 6eme ane: Yes. They have their own name.
What do you call them?
(Several participants continue laughing and joking.)
#8 Placide Idalma ; Female; 36 years ; 6 children ; Market woman ; 4yrs in Cell ; 6eme ane: I don’t know. Workers?
Do they name them brokers?
(Participants are talking very loud.)
Several participants: Yes, brokers. Yes. Yes, they are brokers. Mmh-hummmm. They call them brokers. They are called Scammers.
(Several participants continue laughing and joking.)
#8 Placide Idalma ; Female; 36 years ; 6 children ; Market woman ; 4yrs in Cell ; 6eme ane: For example, what happened here this year…( Other participants are talking very loud can’t hear what respondent said next)
We want to thank every single one of you for participating in this meeting and also take the time to congratulate all of you for this great work you are doing in the mango production in the country. You all know that the country needs all of you to move it forward. I don’t know if you would like to say something else before we finish?
#10 Antoine Gustav ; Male; 50 year; None; Farmer; 1yr in Cell; None: Well, Ma’am I would like for the Cell to be more interested in grafting. We have a lot mango trees that still need to be grafted. By next year we want the Cell to get more mangoes than usual.
Do you need more people doing graft?
#10 Antoine Gustav ; Male; 50 year; None; Farmer; 1yr in Cell; None: Yes.
#8 Placide Idalma ; Female; 36 years ; 6 children ; Market woman ; 4yrs in Cell ; 6eme ane: We barely have anyone doing graft now.
That is what I am trying to understand. You said there are…( Number 8 interrupted.)
#8 Placide Idalma ; Female; 36 years ; 6 children ; Market woman ; 4yrs in Cell ; 6eme ane: I don’t graft if the grafting is being by the state.
Were they doing it for free?
#8 Placide Idalma ; Female; 36 years ; 6 children ; Market woman ; 4yrs in Cell ; 6eme ane: Yes, it was being done for free. They didn’t even take 1 gourde from you to graft your trees.
Your husband does grafting?
#8 Placide Idalma ; Female; 36 years ; 6 children ; Market woman ; 4yrs in Cell ; 6eme ane:: He doesn’t do it anymore. Now, he is not doing it.
Why?
#8 Placide Idalma ; Female; 36 years ; 6 children ; Market woman ; 4yrs in Cell ; 6eme ane:: One of my Brothers –in- Law used to do it. He was doing it for free for everyone. Every month he would get paid. With that money he would buy some animals. Now the program had stopped. I don’t what the problem is.
Several participants: The program stopped. It stopped.
#8 Placide Idalma ; Female; 36 years ; 6 children ; Market woman ; 4yrs in Cell ; 6eme ane: I will have to ask him if the program will continue or not.
Does that means there are special tools needed to do graft.
#8 Placide Idalma ; Female; 36 years ; 6 children ; Market woman ; 4yrs in Cell ; 6eme ane: Yes, they gave tools. They give Mango tools and there is also some kind of gelatin and a clipper.
Can you get this gelatin in the country?
#8 Placide Idalma ; Female; 36 years ; 6 children ; Market woman ; 4yrs in Cell ; 6eme ane: Yes. That gelatin is a special gelatin. There is also something transparent like the ones they cover tablecloth with.
Several participants: That transparent thing is a tape. It’s a tape.
#8 Placide Idalma ; Female; 36 years ; 6 children ; Market woman ; 4yrs in Cell ; 6eme ane::. If he doesn’t have that special tape he does the grafting with transparent.
Can you all do grafting?
Several participants: No we cannot do it. We cannot do it. Yes, I do grafting.
Are there any producers here who needs grafting to done on the mango trees?
Several participants: Me. Yes, many producers.
Why are you not doing the grafting ?
#8 Placide Idalma ; Female; 36 years ; 6 children ; Market woman ; 4yrs in Cell ; 6eme ane: We can’t find anyone to do it.
Your husband knows how to it. Why doesn’t he do it?
(Several participants are laughing)
#10 Antoine Gustav ; Male; 50 year; None; Farmer; 1yr in Cell; None:: Her husband is a clerk now. He’s always at the court.
(Laughing.)
#8 Placide Idalma ; Female; 36 years ; 6 children ; Market woman ; 4yrs in Cell ; 6eme ane: (Laughing) He doesn’t do it anymore.
If we can find someone to the grafting are you willing to pay that person ?
Several participants: Yes. I would agree to do that.
(Participants are talking among themselves.)
#10 Antoine Gustav ; Male; 50 year; None; Farmer; 1yr in Cell; None: From the Cell, I had a cousin who used to do grafting but he doesn’t do it anymore.
Why doesn’t he want to do anymore?
A male participant talking very low: I am not making any money from it.
People are not paying you?
Participant continues: Mhummmmm, people would tell me to do grafting for them but won’t pay me.
#8 Placide Idalma ; Female; 36 years ; 6 children ; Market woman ; 4yrs in Cell ; 6eme ane: You do it too expensive. When the mister my husband used to do grafting it was 25 gourdes per tree. You are charging 100 gourdes per tree.
(Participants are discussing grafting fees. You can hear people started leaving.)
